Aww, aren’t those puppies cute?
Those aren’t dogs. They’re foxes, believe it or not.
In the 1950s, Soviet scientist Dmitri Belyaev set out to breed a tamer fox that would be easier for their handlers in the Russian fur industry to work with. The foxes included in his breeding experiment were determined by their temperament. To select candidates to breed, Belyaev would stick out his hand in front of foxes, and rank them based on how they reacted. The foxes that snapped or bit at his hand would be disqualified from the experiment, and the foxes that cowered or exhibited curiosity without attacking his hand would be mated together. The best behaved of the selected foxes offspring would be mated again, etc.
The scientists expected a long and tedious experiment with little immediate effects. Much to the their shock, however, noticeable changes in the foxes behavior emerged after just about 10 generations. Not only were the new foxes better behaved, they were also playful, smaller in size, and even had white patches of fur on on large swaths of their bodies. Many wagged their tails like dogs, and some even had blue eyes.
Shocked with the results, Belyaev and his team began to investigate. Testing a hypothesis, they discovered that the new ‘Silver’ foxes, had a significantly lower level of adrenaline than their original counterparts. Adrenaline directly affected the behavior of the foxes, the size the foxes grew, and somehow, the color of the foxes. Through some more testing, the scientists discovered that the level of melanin (a chemical responsible for pigmentation) in the foxes was lower as well, explaining how the foxes emerged with colors never before heard of from their breed.
Scientists theorize that the domestication of wolves to dogs probably began the same way. Generally thought to have developed their affectionate temperament over hundreds or thousands of generations, wolves could have become the dogs we know today quicker than anyone could have imagined.
Wow, this is incredible.
Those are the cutest animals ever, they are absolutely gorgeous. I want one. I really do.
scary stuff…….
my blue merle sheltie has all those traits…….
floppy ears, white patches, real sweet disposition.
i’d love to import and breed them.
Amazing! I have had numerous border collies over the years and they ARE very fox like in some of their mannerisms and appearance. I for one am a believer.
However, there is a frightening question that may follow….is it possible that it could be true for humans as well?
This is interesting. I want one of the fox puppies.
It’s true in every animal.. the more melanin, the more aggressive their behavior and the more competitive. It’s not acceptable in the realm of science or academia to apply these concepts to human behavior, however. It leads to ideas of genetic supremacy, eugenics, etc. We tend to steer clear of that line of thinking since that whole WW2 thing.
Maddie, are you suggesting that white people are a ‘tamed’ version of humans? Or does your bullshit only focus on the darker side of the spectrum?
Biology applies to everyone. Humans are somehow excluded from this? I don’t follow, Job. I wasn’t implying anything beyond a biological standpoint. Psychology is a completely different realm and is based mostly on theory. Way to be objective.
What I don’t understand is why they called it a ’silver fox’ instead of a ‘fog’ which would have been much funnier I think you have to agree.
On a more serious note, how exactly DO you explain the aggressive Vikings and their modern day fair skinned, fair haired, fair eyed descendants if the positive correlation between the amount of melanin and aggression is causal?
goddo, it’s not mutually exclusive. It was also their [the vikings'] lifestyle and it benefited them. It’s safe to say that almost every civilization has experienced aggression. The Vikings did it on an epic scale and it was well documented. They transformed the world as we once knew it. Again, this has nothing to do with biology. Depression has been known to run in families due to a natural low level of serotonin. It doesn’t mean that you WILL be depressed, it means you’re prone to depression with the right stressors (which, can literally be anything). Human Behavior is much more complex than animals, which means there are much more contributors than melanin or a dopamine pathway. But biology’s biology.
So, what you’re saying is that you did biology at university but failed to get a job out of it so now you come here to vent your raging spleen?
Try community college. Work is for the weak! =P
lol, ok, at least you have a sense of humor – it that a learned or an inherited trait? :-p
Must be something in the potatoes. I dunno, the Irish are some jolly folk. Would I dare say I’m… Black Irish? I WOULD!
Ok, like starch you mean? So, you’re now claiming that a diet high in starch and a sense of humor are causally related?
I think so… and diabetes.
[...] via: Overpill – Soviet Scientist Turns Foxes Into Puppies Interesting what can happen in 10 generations. __________________ Zappo: 40 Zealot of Dark [...]
Is that tom hanks doing the dialogue?
In the first video.
Adrenaline and melanin levels may be related but melanin levels are definitely not the only determinate of adrenaline levels. Furthermore, adrenaline is not the only determinate of competitive and aggressive behavior. It is an interesting link, but I would not say that it is large enough to say that people with more pigmentation are thereby more likely to be aggressive. The modern human does not evolve as efficiently as animals anyway – selective breeding and survival of the fittest ect is all undermined by personal taste ect. Different “races” are more genetically similar to each other within each group and I think it is ok to acknowledge that. That helps doctors understand and predict different conditions that are more prevalent in different groups of people. But this is because they are more closely related to each other- like really large families. Despite these small differences, human beings are some of the most homogeneous of species – so I would think any talk of breeding a “master race” of people would be wishful thinking. It is true that stupid people may have stupid children, alcoholics may have alcoholics- but the changes are so minute and so dependent on multiple factors that I would imagine one would have an easier time creating “tame” people through conditioning, and aggressive people the same way. Behavior, especially in the more intelligent animals, depends on so much more than adrenaline levels.
Also, just to be “that guy” – so they made sweet and fun loving animals just to kill for fur anyway. Oh look, now they are happy to die, horray! This one is licking my face and wagging his tail, I think I can make him into an amazing hat to gather dust in some rich old lady’s closet!
Trevor: I think it’s John Lithgow.
Benny the Fish: We just happened to be on the topic of melanin and dontAsk presented the question. I agree with you, which is why I tried to get away from the whole master race thing. I never intended to define human beings by their genetic makeup. We’re clearly more than the sum of our parts – not to be taken in any religious tone. Humans are a social animal, which is also why I tried to stress that I was approaching this from a purely biological standpoint. But I like the way you think!
Maddie- You are mixing cause and effect here.
The reason that lighter skinned people evolved was not from selective breeding, it was due to the requirements of Vitamin D. The lighter our skin, the more effective vitamin D absortion.
There has been no observed corrilation that I am aware of between violent tendencies and melanin in humans.
If you are aware of such a study, please reference, or should we just dismiss your original post as bigotry?
Also, how then do you explaine all the well tempered black dogs? Few animals are more gentel than a black lab.
This study only links amounts of melinine to a specific species.
The discussion of the vikings might be relevant unless you consider that most of the “vikings” were farmers that fell on hard times. Their solution to not having enough was to go raid relatively “easy” targets such as the monasteries of Lindensfarn and the Isle of Mann
Phantomprophet, tackling this subject in an open forum is academic suicide. Melanin levels as well as other hormones are well documented to affect animal behavior… from birds, to mosquitos, to mice, etc.. I never talked about evolution of whites or blacks. I don’t care to. Like I said, just because an animal has high levels of melanin, doesn’t mean it’s going to be aggressive. That largely depends on it’s owners in the case of a black lab. I think you’re reading what’s going in a defensive way, which i suppose cannot be helped.
For the Russian fur industry.
That means skinned alive.
http://www.peta.org/feat/chineseFurFarms/index.asp
Peta are faggots, yes, but the video on that page is not nice for anyone that likes furry things.
Watch it. This is what happens to those fox puppies. Those cute little things. Fun times for all.
[...] Overpill – Soviet Scientist Turns Foxes Into Puppies I guess Mabinogi was years ahead of these scientists, although most people would rather get a tame [...]
I do not see how this can be misconstrued.
“It’s true in every animal.. the more melanin, the more aggressive their behavior and the more competitive.”
Are we not animals?
All I asked for was for you to back this statement up with a scientific study.
And no, the owners are not responsible for an entire breeds disposition, only individuals.
phantomprophet, as I said previously, I was only speaking biologically. You’re bringing the race/breed issue to the table, not I. I also said and implied we are more than the sum of our parts and that melanin alone does not play the major role in human behavior. It is a factor, however in animal behavior… just as testosterone, serotonin, etc… You’re cherry picking my statements, focusing on what you find to be offensive, and disregarding the rest. I never made a general, sweeping, subjective statement about a whole breed of animal either. That was on your part. It’s not my job to find you sources, I’m not your professor. You’re an adult, I assume. My father always taught me that if I don’t know a word, look it up. I know we’re not talking about vocabulary, but you get the idea.
If I ever get rich, I’m going to create lots of my own species. MWAHAHAHA!!!!
WYKOP KURWA!
And it’s started
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About, article, is interesting, and show power of evolution ^^
I would like to point out here, before everyone goes off on ridiculous and racist theories that white people actually produce as much melanin as anybody else. The melanin actually gets produced but it gets broken down faster in white people so it’s not stored in as high a quantity.
People who don’t produce the melanin to begin with would be albinos, and even there you can’t make this leap of logic with aggression because the aggressiveness is mostly linked to what’s causing production of higher melanin, and not the actual ability of your body to make melanin.
But as far as linking skin color to melanin production levels-don’t, because we all make about the same amount of melanin, some of us break it down a lot faster than others but it has nothing to do with production.
Tek, I thank you, and I’m glad you understand this wasn’t a black or white issue. Biology is ALL INCLUSIVE. Melanin works on the same pathway as many of the “behavior regulating” neurotransmitters, etc. It’s a complicated network of cholinergics, monoamines, amino acids, and nueropeptides working together. To take free melanin levels of anyone and decide what kind of behavior they will exhibit is not within our grasp and ludicrous. It may give you an idea of what’s going on under the hood, however.
o Kurwa ostro
Actually, “Benny the Fish,” you couldn’t be more wrong about race and genetics. There is, for instance, more biodiversity in native Africans than in the rest of the world combined. Race is so genetically insignificant as to not even exist. Pick out any two black people in America, and they’re no more likely to be close genetically than any other two people…at least if color is your only criterion.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. To compare humans to other species is almost always much more of an indication of the prejudices and values of the person doing the comparison than of any real correlation between species. Humans are too complex.
Oh, and Maddie, you are sporting a classic case of biological reductionism. You should have that looked at.
Liz, I know — Have to break it in a bit, it’s a little stiff. I was also very forward with it, it’s not like I was in guise. If people don’t understand that it’s a reductionist view, there’s nothing I can do about that. It is, however, how we’ve modeled much of our understandings of behavior.. even our own biology — to counter the whole comparison argument. Take two of any mammal and we’re almost genetically identical (I’m speaking in hyperbole, forgive me.). I agree humans are too complex, but having an understanding of another mammal’s biology/psychology and comparing is by no means a bad thing. It only builds a foundation of knowledge that we can add upon… you know, the human complexities.
Biological reductionism is given a bad rep, mostly because the people who have wielded it with ulterior motives or some agenda. In theory, Eugenics is an amazing concept. The social ramifications are undesirable and intolerable, however.
I was reading about this recently in Newsceintist, I wonder if someone will try to breed a domestic Zebra. Strange to think that the only reason a lot of animals aren’t domesticated is that no-one’s bothered to.
[...] retarded growth of somatic characters,resemble pedomorphosis. There are also videos of the foxes here and here. Finally, a slightly more up-to-date article (though still three years old) from the New [...]
Domestication is of benefit to both parties: cows are extinct in the wild, corn is found all over the world, most pet dogs can depend on regular meals and comfortable dens…
Temple Grandin in ‘Animals in Translation’ points out that the brain size of animals decreases following domestication. When dogs were domesticated, the brains of humans decreased as well. She postulates that it’s the co-evolution of dogs and humans that’s responsible for society as it is today.
Also, Toxoplasmosis, a disease common in cats has theoretically infected over half of the human population. Rats (an intermediary host) that have been infected are suddenly drawn to cat urine and have decreased fear responses. Once eaten, as they’re bound to be, they pass the parasite on to cats which pass the parasite on to humans. Do we keep cats or does the parasite alter our brains enough so that keeping cats seems a good idea. Maybe we’ve been domesticated by Toxoplasmosis? (check out the Stuff You Should Know podcast on parasites).
This is all BS. THere is only GOD who can make changes to life.
God made science and gave us the intelligence to turn ideas into knowledge
Maddox, domestication isn’t as easy as that.
Zebras, in particular, are difficult to capture – they can see and duck lassos – and very bad-tempered.
Read Guns, Germs, and Steel for more than you ever wanted to know about which animals are suitable for domestication and why.
The last video mentions how the pigmentation made the foxes useless to the fur industry.
It is interesting though when you consider the current trends what kind of person someone wants to have kids with (or eventually has due to stupidity)… consider the movie Idiocracy… what does happen when stupid people choose only stupid people to breed with? or for a better hope… what happens when 10 generations of geeks breed? Or, to get into the thick of the racism, what happens when the trend of black males choosing to breed with white females goes 10 generations?
Liz – That old myth has persisted in Sociology classes since 1950 and has not updated itself according to how cascading expression works. A chimpanzee and a human have a 3% difference in genomes, yet, how that 3% gets expressed is what matters. When comparing DNA linearly, “color blind” academics immediately say that the difference between races are insignificant. REAL geneticists know damn well that there is no such thing as insignificant differences. One point of difference in be beginning can result in a HUGE chain of difference in the final expression. Imagine a ruler on the ground. You grab it and rotate it a little bit upwards. The change at your hand from where the ruler was is “statistically insignificant” but at the end of the ruler, the change is dramatically different.
You are combining political zeal with actual science. Binding them together is no different than binding God and Science under the same yoke.
[...] via Overpill – Soviet Scientist Turns Foxes Into Puppies. [...]
Put me on the list for one of these. They’re adorable.
Where is the common precursor for melatonin and adrenalin?
[...] 1959年，苏联科学家Dmitri Belyaev开始驯养狐狸，他通过测试狐狸的性情挑选驯养对象。Belyaev在狐狸前面伸出他的手，攻击或撕咬手的狐狸被立即剔除出试验，只有性情温和没有攻击性的狐狸才被选择参与试验和交配繁殖，它们的后代继续沿用此种模式繁殖。 科学家预计可能需要很冗长的时间才能产生一些即时效应。然而令他们震惊的是，仅仅过了10代，狐狸的行为便已经发生了显著的变化。新一代的狐狸变得更乖巧，更善玩，体型也变得更小，身体皮肤上的颜色也变得多姿多彩，它们会像狗一样摇摆尾巴，甚至还有一双蓝色眼睛。Belyaev于1985年去世，但驯养狐狸的试验仍在继续。科学家认为狼驯化成狗的方式与之相同，通常认为狼的性情需要数百甚至数千代才能发生改变，但这项试验显示演化远远比人们想象的要快得多。 [...]
On the other hand – though black hands are usually better than white – it has been PROVEN that you are all inferior when compared to a wicker basket of monkey penises.
[...] Uncategorized Digg this Comments (0) Trackbacks (0) Leave a comment [...]
Oh, a fan! I’m flattered.
By Maddie’s theory, black labs should be more aggressive than golden labs, black poodles more aggressive than white poodles, black cats more aggressive than siamese or persians, angus cows more aggressive than herefords, Cormorants more aggressive than pigeons, who in turn are more aggressive than seagulls. Black chickens more aggressive than Rhode Island reds in turn more aggressive than white chickens.
Evidence doesn’t support the theory.
were can i buy one of these!??
Sherwood Botsford: Biological theory isn’t a holistic approach. Most science isn’t. To assume that “my” theory is the only measure of behavior is, again, ludicrous. In practice, the application of many theories in chorus are utilized. Evidence supports the theory, just not your ‘observations.’
Maddie, the bottom line is that your original statement does not hold water.
You zeroed in on one piece of the article and extrapolated that the finding in this case (a loose link between melanin and aggression) can then be applied to all animals.
If you have something to back up your statement I would like to see it.
It’s not my job to check your work as I am not YOUR professor.
You are an adult (I assume) and thus are responsible for backing up your own statements when some one calls you out on your B.S.
The foxes chosen by a difference in aggressiveness caused a change physical attributes not the other way around. Duh!
Welcome to evolution by artificial selection.
phantomprophet: so, you agree that you’re cherry picking my statements? I didn’t zero in on anything, dontAsk made an inquiry and I followed through on it. Since the case presented changes in behavior, melanin, and adrenaline; I inferred by the way that it was worded that dontAsk was presenting a controversial subject… there goes adrenaline. Again, I’m not responsible for educating you on biological theory. My statement(SSSS) holds water under the light of biological theory — It’s very heavy.
Gut Check: Neurotransmitters and various compounds are known to affect/effect behavior directly or indirectly — to potentiate a response. At different stages of development, some are to known to even bring about physical changes. The selection in the foxes seems to have decreased all these actuators and potentiators, bringing about or allowing the cascade of changes.
I admit nothing of the sort.
I do not feel that I am cherry picking anything.
You made a statement that you are presenting as fact and I am commenting on it in it’s entirety and am simply asking for you to site your source for said statement.
I am not asking for an education, I already have plenty of that, I am asking for you to backup what you purport to know.
I have heard nothing in the way of sitable facts from you in this matter, only holier than thou “I am not your Professor” and “I’m not responsible for education you on biological theory” which gets us nowhere.
It sounds to me like you read this article and decided you were an expert in the field.
If this is not the case then simply site your sources.
If you are as familiar with the scientific community as you have insinuated to be then you should be familiar with the peer review process, which is what this boils down to in a microcosmic kind of way.
You have published a theory and we in the community are free to ask for you to site your basis for said theory.
Heh, fair enough. I do not have any sources to point you to and i don’t really want to search — call me lazy. It’s also not my theory, it’s an established criterion. I won’t declare to have some sort of tacit knowledge or to represent a field of study, but the concept stands. I know that birds utilize melanin for a brighter show of colors or badges to declare their alpha-ness. It’s also documented that they are far more aggressive, especially when courting. Tyrosine is the precursor for melanin, adrenaline, dopamine, etc. Adrenaline is associated with it’s stress-mediated responses. Dopamine is associated with addictive behavior. Serotonin is associated with depression. Melatonin is associated with sleep. They’re all associated with the synthesis of each other. The more of one, means the more potentiation of the other and their associated effects/affects… and vice versa. I’m off to play some volleyball, i should have been getting ready, now i’m late.
What I wonder, and I discussed this with my dad when he first heard of this discovery, is if any of the foxes were inbred and if so, how many? Inbreeding, if they were, could very likely mess with their genetics or cause ‘glitches’ that resulted in the curled tails and white spots, haha. Very cool, though. They’re absolutely adorable and as someone mentioned above, they look LOADS like border collies.
Only russians can do that
Benny the Fish, not to be “that guy”, but I see you didn’t watch the part of the video where it said that the foxes’ odd coloration made them useless to the fur industry.
[...] Shared Overpill – Soviet Scientist Turns Foxes Into Puppies. [...]
Rai, it’s a possibility. If they were to be coveted for their fur, I find it hard to believe they would resort to inbreeding. Still, it brings up a good point. People with congenital disorders such as down’s have specific traits. Maybe curled tails, floppy ears, the spotted coat, etc all cascade from the genetic anomalies brought on from inbreeding or a congenital defect. The traits we all have come to know and love may just be coding errors. They say that human intelligence may have came about by a form of muscular dystrophy in the jaw, which allowed our brains to grow larger. It may have given us the edge to outcompete the rest of the population. We may be impeding our own evolutionary success through treating some of these disorders. As it is, however, I find the human race to be pretty successful. We’ll be our own undoing, anyhow. No need to speed it up.
There will always be people who find it unsettling to consider that we are biological entities closely related to the rest of the primates. Even more unsettling is that we – as a living being – is a sum of a complex arrangement of chemical processes called life.
It is only about 60 years since we have discovered DNA, and less than that to start to plot the molecular makeup of our genetic material.
Much of science is based on observation. If I mix blue and yellow together I get green. From there one undertakes additional experiments to find out what chemical changes has occurred and then a side step into optic’s to understand about the diffraction of light.
However we have been selectively breeding for thousands of years without understanding the processes
but.. we have observed the outcome and from that we can make theories re the cause and effect. Breeding a Horse with a Donkey creates a sterile Mule. Why?? Is it because they are closely related but too far apart to for the offspring to be fertale. Why not try and breed a Dog and a Cat? From there (and with current tools) we can look into the propoed evoluion of equines, plot their DNA and chromozones and understand that it is this section of DNA that is different between the two. But that is only clarifying an observation.
Maddie’s OBSERVATIONS are perfectly valid. A viewpoint has been put forward on cause and effect. Further understanding, experimentation, and clarification will prove that the observation is valid or invalid.
Some people will use these observations for disasterous purposes like eugenics and genetical purging. But that does not invalidate the initial observation in any way – only the use to which it is put.
I find the article with the foxes to be a very interesting observation into the initial domestication of canid’s, and also gives a better understanding on the maliability of vulpine genetics.
Oh so they found a way to tame foxes for when they skin them alive. I wish the worst things will happen to all russians. Fucking animal killers, someone should drop a bomb there. Useless pieces of shit.
looks like nature has been……wait for it…OUTFOXED
horrible idea poor fox:(
[...] studioso russo Dmitri Belyaev, riferisce Overpill è riuscito a selezionare da volpi selvatiche una razza di volpi domestiche. Belyaev ha scelto le [...]
[...] studioso russo Dmitri Belyaev, riferisce Overpill è riuscito a selezionare da volpi selvatiche una razza di volpi domestiche. Belyaev ha scelto le [...]
[...] Posted on January 1, 2010 by leighriffel A scientist has essentially turned foxes into dogs within 10 generations — a finding consistent with creation. The change is within the [...]
This just bad. Leave them be. please!!!!
[...] Morningstarr Foxes. Here's a good read for you Major, and some cool videos too. Overpill – Soviet Scientist Turns Foxes Into Puppies __________________ The Morningstarr* is like Fortean Times for deviants How can you not love [...]
[...] Posted by Mr Morningstarr* Here's a good read for you Major, and some cool videos too. Overpill – Soviet Scientist Turns Foxes Into Puppies Interesting Mr.M. Those Ruskies will do anything for a fur hat. __________________ Those [...]
“Generally thought to have developed their affectionate temperament over hundreds or thousands of generations, wolves could have become the dogs we know today quicker than anyone could have imagined.”
Yet they call this evolution. How sad it is to see the world flee from its Creator and rely on petty lies to explain the beauty of the world He gave us. When will you guys wake up and see that this rapid speciation is exactly what happened after the Flood, providing all the amazing diversity we see today?
[...] Soviet Scientist Turns Foxes Into Puppies [...]
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I think it’s horrible that they are being bred to be butchered for their fur. But that’s just me.
“butchered for their fur”… people like you are such hypocrites.. i believe you eat meat, i bet you have leather products and i am absolutely sure that you use cosmetics… so pls just stfu
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